Yes Ma'am: An Exploration into Mormon Sexuality

(Warning: Parents and parents-in-law are advised that the material in this piece may not be suitable for your memory storage space. With love, M)

A few months after Rockstar and I stopped going to church a couple of young missionaries paid us a visit.  It was about 10am on a Saturday morning, we were both incredibly hung-over from our 10 year anniversary celebrations the night before. We had consumed a bottle of champagne and a bottle of red between us. I know, I know we had no idea what we were doing or what it would do to us but while we were dining at our favourite tapas restaurant we were too happy to care. Back to the 'morning-after' and a couple of doe-eyed Elders was the last thing I expected to see in my bleary state. Rockstar was polite and let them know that we'd left the church and didn't want to have anything to do with it. The Elders seemed to have been somewhat prepared for this response and left pretty quickly, after handshakes and smiles of course.

The Missionary flat that used to be located just down the road from us is no more. I won't presume to say that it is because of us that missionaries no longer live there but I do wonder. I used to see handsome young Elders walking past my house several times a week. Often I'd run into them taking the kids to school, shopping, going to the gym etc etc. The gym trips were the funniest because I'd be in skimpy clothes and I always felt a bit rare talking to missionaries like that but at the same time it was a small kind of thrill to see their obvious responses.

As a good Mormon stay-at-home mum I was often home alone or with small kids when the Elders would come around. One hot day the Elders dropped by (one was particularly handsome and had been very friendly with me during dinner visits at our house). I had been out the back with the kids trying to cool off with some water play and so when I opened the front door I really was not wearing a whole lot. I grabbed a nearby wrap to cover myself a bit more and assumed that the Elders would not stay long. However we spoke for quite a while. In fact the Elder (the one that I said before was attractive) he even made a comment about my figure which, when I think about it now, was pretty outrageous behaviour for a missionary but at the time I really appreciated the feeling that someone saw me as a sexual being.

Rockstar and I had the missionaries over for dinner regularly. We felt like it was our way of saying thanks to all of the generous New Zealanders who fed and cared for Rockstar when he served his mission in Auckland in 1996-1998. Plus we were only a little bit older than the Elders and Sisters so we felt like we were their peers. I really treasure all of the memories that I have of the many big-hearted missionary Elders and Sisters who visited our home... ate with us, played games with us, adored our children, sang with us. Wow, I'm feeling teary thinking about it.



Where has all of this sprung from? I was reminded of an incident recently when a hunky male staff member at one of the gyms I work for winked at me as I handed him my Balance cards just before leaving the club. I was startled by just how much that wink affected me. You see, before he winked at me I had not really paid all that much attention to him but ever since that wink I am just drawn to his maleness whenever I see him. I mentioned this to Rockstar since he has an ego of steel (haha) and then we remembered something that had happened when some missionaries were at our house a few years ago...



We - Rockstar, me, two Elders and our two kids - were playing 'Go Fairy' which is just like 'Go Fish' but with Fairy cards.  I asked one of the Elders "Do you have a rainbow fairy?" and he responded in his American accent (think kinda slow drawl here) "Yes Ma'am" and handed me the card. I summoned all of my strength to reach out and take the card because inside I had just turned to Jelly (or Jell-O for the American Mormons here). Every fantasy I had ever had about a man in uniform just merged into one and there he was sitting in front of me. Seriously, if all social conventions had disappeared at that moment and suddenly all that existed in this world were that Elder and I then Damn! would he have had to look out! For weeks after that I couldn't look at the guy without blushing. It was madness.

The sexual tension of a situation is massively heightened if you are a Mormon. Every glance, every brush of skin (or clothes) sends thrills through the body and paralyses the mind. Pretty exciting stuff really; just like the scene in 'Pride and Prejudice' where Mr. Darcy offers his hand to Elizabeth Bennet as she goes to climb into the carriage and then as he walks away there is a shot of him flexing his hand as though the thrill of their touch is still coursing though him. Being Mormon can be like that. It is hard to be friends with someone of the opposite sex because you are told that you should not ever be alone with a man (or a man alone with a woman) because you might end up having sex with them; the temptation would be too great! apparently. Sooooo, this kind of precludes friendship (or any serious friendship) with someone of the opposite sex.

Sooooo I guess if my local (ex)leaders are reading this then I have hopefully been removed from that black list into complete and utter oblivion. And I would highly recommend that they do because if i find any stray Elders over here you can bet that I will be very charming indeed. I look forward to some daytime chats on my front porch or an evening dinner with my family and ooh, maybe even a game of 'Go Fairy'.  I will probably have to wait until we are living somewhere other than Perth though ...but then I can let the fun and games begin! I'm getting all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.

(If you see any pics here that you think I have cropped you out of and you would be happy for me to crop you back in please send me a note and I'd love to expand the view, AngryBaker I'm looking at you!)

Some interesting things that were said to me this week

that I am "...suddenly determined to bring down the evil with my apparent newly accquired self-righteousness..."


I understand where the author of this comment is coming from. To them I sound loud and angry and, well self-righteous. But am I really? I'd like to think that what has been newly acquired is a VOICE! and the realisation that my opinion does count and that I am free to think and read and speak and write. I am free to converse with people and disagree with them. I am free to speak out if I think that there are injustices afoot. And everyone is free to do all of these same things too. Disagree with me. I want you to. I want to be forever open to new ideas and ways of looking at the world. Self-righteous? I don't see it. 


and later this (same author) "If one wants to hate on the LDS church for having views peculiar to some instead of concentrating on being a good Atheist, go for it! If not, and contention is a high priority in one’s life, go all the way and do it to ALL the religions and Atheists that view similarly!! If I want to put the gloves on, why go after the little kid in the yard when you can take down the big bully!! And there are 4+ billion ‘bullies’ out there, have a field day!! One can enjoy several lifetimes of pugilism with this...an old school Battle Royale!!"


I like to think that I 'hate' on the LDS church at the same time as being a 'good' atheist rather than "instead of" :P 


...and I'd just like to add the now tedious reminder that I am against the LDS church, not it's people.


Is contention a high priority in my life? God I hope not. I think that I like to "kick against the pricks", and when I say 'like' I mean that I consider it to be worth doing. It hurts like hell at times (damned prickly pricks)  but what am I doing here in this priviledged white educated girls skin if I don't use my voice in some hope-full/less attempt to give voice to others. For a while that dialogue has screamed about Mormon stinkshit but I am moving on. There are (as my friend* and quasi-conscience points out) many religions and bullies to tackle. I'll get to them. The one that I am currently trying to cut out of my brain is Mormonism so, just give me a minute. 


As for the LDS church being "the little kid in the yard"??... 1.) pointing to a bigger bully does not absolve the smaller bully. 2.) I think that there are many dead gay Mormons who would disagree with you, if they were alive to do so. 


I appreciate my friend*'s "passion" as another friend* called it. And I am gratefully aware that the pain I felt as I read the words was much less than what it has been in the past. My hide is toughening up. That doesn't mean I'll shut up (as you can see) but my blood pressure is a lot better these days. 


*Please note dear friends that I continue to mean friend when I say friend. I hope the anonymity of this post is sufficient. May the dialogue continue. 

If you don't like my fire...

My numbers on fb tend to fluctuate quite a lot. As a vocal ex-Mo I am getting somewhat used to seeing the numbers slip down but damn it! I am trying to get more friends than Rockstar and this 'up 2, down 1' business is making it really hard!

Don't get me wrong, I loooove all of my new non-Mo friends... Loooove them! but there is a little pang in my heart every time a friend decides they've had enough and removes me from their list. Especially when they keep Rockstar on the list bcos then I'll never beat him! hehe. No, seriously all I can think is that they must be keeping him there a.) because he doesn't post that much god-bashing info, or b.) because they think he just left (church) because I pussy-whipped him into it, or c.) because they like him better.

I know, I know you're all thinking c.) right?! (stupid adorable *#@*ing Rockstar!).

I could understand it if I had actually been horrible to these 'friends'.  It really sucks knowing that you've been un-friended because the person doesn't like what you are writing online (ever heard of 'hiding' a persons posts?!). It makes me so terribly proud of my Mo' friends who stick by me no matter what I say about their stinkin' religion. I love them and have never said otherwise about a single Mo' friend, ever! Thanks for seeing ME guys, thanks for seeing past my hurt and giving me the space to grieve and heal.

"Get over it" I hear you say, "they were never real friends" you add. Yes, I agree with you. I just happen to have a nice lil' public blog-hole where I can rant about whatever I feel like and today I feel like saying to all of the people who have un-friended me bcos of my blog-hole......hey! - "If you don't like my fire, Then don't come around Cause I'm gonna burn one down!"

Now I have a confession to make (ooh, that reminds me I just have to go and friend request someone - excuse me, yep done! - that I un-friended ages ago when I was getting all jealous of the girls that Rockstar was friending from his past "Is that an old girlfriend? ...Is that? ...What about that one?" and then I got all self-righteous and un-friended boys from my past, anyone Rockstar didn't know, just to show him how god-damned special I was! what a joke! I have a post to write about control and letting go of it! post-Mormonism).

Er, long tangent. Anyway, confession? yes, right then. Well, there was another time when I went for a mass un-friend-icide and it happened pretty soon after I received some hate mail from some Mo's. Some of this mail was sent anonymously but through a friend I discovered who had written it and they (the writer) were (was?) one of my fb friends!... So I went on the offensive and un-friended all of my Mo' friends that I had not seen or spoken to within a few months. Happy Day(z) when I started getting messages from said Mo' friends asking me what was going on and sending me friend requests  J

So, to all of the Mo's out there who think I un-friended them but can't really remember whether we ever were actually fb friends or not, there's a pretty good chance that we were and that I was a douche and un-friended you. Hey, if you feel like helping me beat that numskull, Rockstar, in the friends department and you think I'm a bit of alright then please by all means friend request me eh?!

Hey, this has been fun! Practicing my writing skillz (hey, I heard that laugh!), therapising myself in the mean-time...loverly!

Putting My Brave Face On

About 2 weeks ago, in an attempt to regain some control over my life, I closed my facebook account and shut down this blog. I had reached a point where I greatly resented the public nature of my journey. If I could change the past I would go back and start this blog as an anonymous venture. The passive-aggressive nature of some facebook interactions and misunderstandings had accumulated and worn me down. And perhaps most of all this blog was beginning to shape me rather me shaping it.

(There was also a very specific catalyst for the shutdowns but I won’t discuss it here).

It is one thing when friends un-friend you on facebook, it is quite another when a family member does it. How on earth does religion trump family? It would seem as though the religion that most likes to present itself as family-friendly has a rather bad track record of keeping families together. All of the focus on the afterlife has blinded people to the needs and feelings of those right in front of them in the here and now! I watched an online friend go through the full gamut of emotions recently resulting in serious consideration of suicide. And we all know about the suicide attempts and actual suicides of LGBT Mormon youth in the States.

It saddens me to be experiencing rejection and unkindness from family. The loss of friendships has also been hard but there have been many beautiful people ready to pop up and take their place; do I have to replace family as well? I guess I am beginning to learn that family is not a right but a privilege and must be earned with love, respect and kindness.

I am blown away by the lack of compassion shown by Mormons. There are some that shine out and do what you’d expect any decent human to do but then there are a disturbing number who refuse to even try to understand an apostate’s pain. The horribly overused label stating that a person has “Left the church but won’t leave the church alone” is one that is sadly so entrenched in Mormon culture and yet it is so hurtful to anyone who is trying to process the enormous changes going on in their life. Think for just a moment of how you might feel if everything you thought was true was turned upside-down and it happened at whirlwind speed and then imagine that the people who you have been closest to for your whole life tell you that you must never speak about this to them, ever. For you to discuss your confusion, feelings of betrayal and hurt, your loss… all of these very real emotions and experiences are rejected by those whom you love and instead you are told that you are mistaken, lost and evil.

Instead of discussion there is ignorance. Instead of love, distance.

And so because I started this journey with my brave real face on I now have to choose whether to ‘disappear’ and regain some peace or move forward in the face of hypocrisy and unkindness and put my name to my thoughts and experiences. I know that by writing these things down I will help someone else who is right now being shunned by their Mormon family and friends. After all of the lessons I heard in church about writing a journal to help my progeny it turns out that the most useful thing I can do with my words is to help people survive the turmoil that can come in the first stages of post-Mormonism.

Psychological Dysfunction

*


For anyone who has wondered why I have been doing mental gymnastics for the last year or so.

Read me

That's a fucking big list when you put it all together!

You can read the article this list came from here, also very helpful for ex-mos.

Thanks Cognitive Dissenter for posting the link over at Smoking Joe's new blog Moroni Blows.

Afflicting the Comfortable

Well, I’ve been a busy little bee lately but haven’t we all! That is life Maureen, suck it up! Actually I did get to go and see that chick flick Eat, Pray, Love and I’ll tell ya’ my respect for Italians went through the roof. You get a really good picture of their attitude to life, particularly regarding work, rest and play. They really, truly feel that they deserve their ‘down-time’, in fact they know that they deserve it, they have grown up knowing this. Love it.

So I know I have neglected my blogger duties but I have been rather outspoken on fb. I’d like to share part of a thread w/you here. I’d also be very interested in any feedback you might have about how I handled the subject. Am I being too rude? I know Daniel won’t think so… he dislikes tone trolls somewhat. The TBM that I am in discussion w/is (as most Mormons are) a very lovely person. I’m not sure if they still think that I am though. I think another friend may have just bitten the dust, sigh.

I’m thinking it’s time to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

A friend posted about the recent General Conference and a commenter soon enquired about their opinion on the now infamous BKP talk. This is what ensued. I’ll skip the first several comments as I’m sure you’re really only interested in it from where I pipe up (dang, my head won’t fit through the doorway). Good luck, see you on the other side.

Maureen (10 Oct 23:06)

Packers talk disturbs me horribly because of the effect it will have on LGBT youth. Why must the church harp on about homosexuality? If religion must exist, why not stick to 'love one another'?!

Maureen (10 Oct 23:22)

I'd love to hear y'all thoughts on Packers talk though. Check out feministmormonhousewives.org for great discussion on how to cope with any cognitive dissonance you may be feeling about the church's stance on homosexuality. There are many active members there finding a way to be faithful and informed. xox

TBM1 (11 Oct 18:41)

when i first heard of 'feministmormonhousewives' i thought to myself they must be the most miserable people on earth! haha

TBM2 (11 Oct 22:00)

the notion that feminism clashes with mormonism excludes the streams of feminism that are in harmony with the gender roles in the lds church, such as those of sylviane agacinski-jospin, alma don sorenson and valerie hudson. i like that fmh creates an open forum and i see it's valuable to its readers, but it's certainly not the only or by any stretch the best option for finding answers and reconciling your own belief systems. i prefer academia and prayer - an earnest search for truth and a bit of faith can go a long way.

Maureen (11 Oct 23:36)

I find it interesting that there are still no comments on the LGBT issue. My heart bleeds for LGBT Mormon youth. Are you guys aware of the rise in suicides from this group recently? I'm not trying to disturb your harmonious feminist and Mormon identities, that is awesome if you can reconcile the two, many women at fMh do too, and it is certainly not the only place to go for help w/that, just a good one, if you're interested. Any takers on the LGBT issue? I see hope for these youth (and adults), heck polygamy didn't last forever, the blacks got the priesthood. Is there room in heaven for the LGBT community? I think so.

TBM2 (12 Oct 06:45) well, the church's stance on homosexuality is no secret (president packer's talk, which wasn't even about homosexuality like the newspapers portray it to be by only quoting the small parts where homosexuality was mentioned) and it's pretty simple. God said don't practise homosexuality, the church says don't practise homosexuality. that's about it, but members and opposition alike add all sorts of assumptions of their own.

Calvalcanti (12 Oct 11:28)

Actually, there's an additional proposition in Pres. Packer's speech that, to some people, seems like a bit of a step backwards from previous Church pronouncements (at least at that level). Specifically, the bit about homosexual tendencies not being inborn, with the rhetorical "Why would God do that to anyone?". While I think the reaction has been disproportionate (Pres. Packer has said things far more controversial), I don't believe that it is entirely groundless. Even with all the sensational editorialising stripped away, there's still a legitimate (and complex) issue left for discussion.

TBM1 (12 Oct 13:02)

I noticed that too [Calvalcanti]. I liked Elder Packer's talk because it was clear and straight down the line, despite public pressure.

Maureen, it is sad that those youth have felt that there is no hope for them and ended their lives. However, what would you suggest, that the church change its doctrines to be less offensive to those who find them challenging? If you consider who the doctrine comes from, it seems to be an absurd ask, that

God should change eternal laws and truths and requirements for his children because some of his children find the criteria too hard?

If you are LDS, then it is an accepted belief that revelation (such as talks by President Packer) is from God. Based on that, I can't quite get my head around the idea that you can be LDS, but not believe everything God tells us. For example- it doesn't make logical sense to say "I am LDS but I believe abortion is okay". Either God reveals things to us through his prophets, or he doesn't. Picking and choosing does not make sense.

Maureen (12 Oct 16:00)

Thanks guys, I appreciate the willingness to talk about the issue. Teen health is something that I am very passionate about.

As [Cavalcanti] has pointed out the church's policy used to be that people are not born gay and should just stop being gay. The church now accepts that people are born gay but say that they should not practice homosexuality. Packer seemed to have forgotten this nuance which from where I stand is easy for me to understand as being his personal opinion and NOT from God.

i think you would be hard pressed to find any latter-day apostles/prophets declaring that they actually speak to god. They work on 'feelings' and impressions. I think you would also be hard pressed to show where god says homosexuality is bad, as far as I know there is no mention of it in the New Testament.

I personally believe that if there is a god that he/she accepts homosexuality on the same level as heterosexuality.

The church decided to get really public and political about homosexuality so the LGBT community and supporters feel quite justified in speaking out against the Mormon church. Believe whatever you want about the afterlife and god but religions have no right to interfere in the lives of non-Mormons and ought to take youth suicide seriously.

Think for a moment how you would feel if you were a gay teenager listening to Packers talk. Then the drone of "follow the prophet" over and over again. Do you really think that subjecting LGBT people to a life of celibacy is humane? or sexual relations w/a person they are not attracted to. I could not marry a woman, nor could a gay man happily marry a woman!

Again, I appreciate your willingness to discuss. The Mormon church can happily go about their religion as long as they remove hurtful statements and stay out of issues where they do not belong.

TBM1 (12 Oct 16:37)

I do not know of any background regarding the church's stance on homosexuality, and I don't need to know. I also don't need to find specific confirmation of homosexuality (rather than immorality) in the bible. All that matters is if God communicates with his prophets (and I don't know how he communicates with them, and I don't need to). As an active LDS, I believe that God does communicate with his prophets, and he has commanded us not to practice homosexuality. Even if God's attitudes were different in the past, it wouldn't matter. He has said to us as recently as a week and a half ago, do not practice homosexuality.

I feel for people who are struggle with feelings of homosexuality. I am fortunate I have not had that struggle. We have also been instructed through prophets (God) that we should treat everyone with kindness and respect and love one another. There have been talks dedicated to these very people, reassuring them there is hope, and that God loves them.

In regards to hurtful statements, some people may be hurt or offended by gospel doctrine. But as I mentioned previously, demanding that prophets (God) change eternal laws and requirements that are challenging does not make much sense. I wonder if you feel the same way about 'immorality' in general, or just homosexuality?

TBM2 (12 Oct 17:34)

when i was at byu, president packer gave a really long boring talk at our regional conference. a month later, he gave the exact same dead boring talk at general conference. he's an apostle, but the dude is getting old :) i'm inclined to go easy on him. at least he changed the word 'tendencies' to 'temptations' in the conference report - which is what really matters, because the conference report is official church doctrine, and the actual conference session is not.

i can understand a gay lds teen would be frustrated, i can't actually think of a harder spiritual burden for someone who shares our beliefs, but the lds message isn't one of hate. for people who believe that God commanded us to not practise homosexuality, then the message of repentance and the atonement that the lds church teaches is one of hope, and that's certainly the intent behind the message - it was definitely president packer's talk, which was about repenting for immorality. for others who believe that practising homosexuality is not a sin, then the lds belief that it is sinful (and God did tell us this, in 'the family: a proclamation to the world'. this is one of the few church publications that is official doctrine) could understandably be interpreted as hateful. it's a difference of opinion though. i think it comes down to a person-to-person basis though. some lds people are very understanding, fair and eloquent. others have brittle black-and-white, and even erroneous interpretations of our beliefs. it's like any community.

Rockstar (12 Oct 19:02)

when, "[...]by common consent" was the Proc. brought in as doctrine? The last actual doctrine was an altercation to who could and couldn't Hold the priesthood. And even then it's really a stretch considering that since Joseph all the leaders have been less than a "Yankee guesser".

and the bigotry rolls on!

Rockstar (12 Oct 21:09)

[TBM2], seems like it's too easy for the church's official stance to change with the whim, fancy and inclination of whomever may be standing at the pulpit. But then, as long as it all FEELS right, y'know, overall...

Good to see everyone so civil.

Rockstar (13 Oct 17:31)

I notice that [TBM1] took your remark about Paker's statement being a backward step as a good thing... I'm not sure if you feel the same way, do you? I don't, and wouldn't if I was still attending/believing; as a TBM I found this standpoint disgusting, now it's also mystifying. And the backward step borders on evil.

[TBM1], so the church shouldn't change it's stance on gays, but it's fine for them to change it re: polygamy and blacks in the priesthood? Just because they haven't doesn't mean they shouldn't, neither does it mean they can't. The "absurd ask", as you suggest Maureen's statement is, has happened before and, frankly, if the church wants to stay financially stable (which is what's really important these days :] ), it's guaranteed to happen again. Guaranteed. So unless you want to end up just like that old sister at Duncraig ward who left the church because the blacks got the priesthood (it seems she reluctantly came back besides her aversion to skin pigmentation), or those who left because of the change to polygamy, I'd get used to the idea that it's actually a possibility. The church may actually change it's teaching.

Maureen (13 Oct 22:39)

[TBM1] and [TBM2]: Mormons have a reputation for being really 'nice' people but I'm afraid that saying that you feel bad for the suffering of others but then refusing to even question ([TBM1]) 'the whys' of your chosen religions actions, actions that adversely affect others, is not being looked upon favourably in the current climate.

[TBM1]: Check out a paper by Hugh Nibley called 'Beyond Politics' that deals w/why god wants us to question even him! (and even more-so his spokesmen/women).

Personal revelation can trump even a prophet. (I'm sounding like a believer now!)

So it's celibacy or marry someone you're not attracted to, are those the choices?

I asked myself this question before I left. If polygamy were brought back in today would I 'follow the prophet', I could not. I left. If polygamy came back in... today... would you 'follow the prophet'? Does this bring you a little closer to understanding the situation for LGBT Mormons?

I find many points of Mormon doctrine highly offensive but the great thing about leaving is that there is no need for me to 'demand' anything of god. I don't care for the Mormon god. I like my god much better.

How do I feel about immorality you ask?

Not sure how this question applies to our discussion but I'll bite.

Firstly, I have to say that I do not consider homosexuality to be immoral so we differ there. I am not a fan of adultery. I think sex w/in a committed relationship is beautiful, I see no need for marriage. Rah rah rah. There are other differences. I love being able to think about these things and weigh them up in my own mind and heart. It's interesting too how words like immoral, sinful, wrong just don't pop up in the world I gravitate in now.

[TBM2]: He may be old but I think he's next in line to be prophet, will he still get free passes then? Maybe their talks should be scrutinised a little more before they are broadcast/spoken since for anyone listening to it the damage has already been done. I acknowledge that you only accept the print version as doctrine.

I was talking about whether or not god spoke against homosexuality outside of Mormonism. I know Mormons think he has. I still think you should ask a prophet/apostle/anyone to confirm when the last time is that someone actually spoke to god rather than having predetermined ideas that they have then prayed about and had confirmed.

I have the same questions for you about the lot in life for LGBT Mormons and whether you would practice polygamy.

[TBM1&2], you have been great sports. I hope the tone in the written word is coming across ok to you. Any grrrr tone is not directed at you but at 'the church'.

On reconciling homosexuality and Mormonism

if you're interested, just someone's thoughts on it.

xox

TBM1 (14 Oct 20:27)

I don't have all the answers to all the questions

posed to me. But I am okay with only knowing what is necessary for me to know right now, I can be patient in the meantime. I don't pretend to know better than the prophets and I don't pretend I am more intelligent than god. [Rockstar] and Maureen, I feel you won't be satisfied with any of my responses until I come to the same conclusions you have- that the lds gospel is false, religion is bad, god does not exist etc. I am not going down that path. I do not doubt, and the personal circumstances surrounding my faith are just that, personal, and not fodder for mocking or anyone else's entertainment.

You have asked for us all to respect each other and discuss these things openly. As far as I can see, your friends have been understanding and respectful to both of you. For you to try to tear down the very personal beliefs of your friends while mocking things they hold dear, their sense of compassion and even their intelligence is unfair and does not match the levels of understanding shown to you.

I am happy in my faith, I am not bitter. I don't want to continue a pointless argument about our different beliefs anymore.

Maureen (14 Oct 21:01)

I was just being straightforward with you [TBM1]. I thought you and [TBM2] (etc) were open to that. I just re-read my comments to try and see if I had been rude. I don't think I was. I don't want you to denounce god but I would love to see active LDS question the leadership on this issue. I feel that it is a human rights concern.

I don't believe I mocked you. I called you out though on choosing not to look into the subject. That is a tough thing for you to hear but I thought you would understand why I would say it.

Let me reiterate. You think that practicing homosexuality is evil and that god thinks it is bad and that gays should change. For some reason you don't see that this is considered by many people to be a very hateful stance... and if you are going to hold such a tough stance then I personally think that you need to know the ins and outs of it.

I don't want to tear down your beliefs, I want you to make sure that you understand them and that they truly are your beliefs and not someone elses. Believe in god all you like but when your beliefs impinge on the freedom and happiness of others then you will probably need to be able to explain yourself.

You ARE compassionate AND intelligent, I did not mean to suggest otherwise. I don't think you are bitter.

I gave my views on god etc throughout our debate but I worded them as 'my views' not "here's the truth, you must agree with me!"

The Mormons here have stated many times their strong belief in god, why is it then not ok for me to say that I don't believe???

This is a tough subject. You don't agree with me and I don't agree with you. I thought we were making headway but something went wrong?

_____________________________________

So, there’s the long and short of it. If anyone is still reading at this point then you need to go and check in for blog addiction rehab.

Debauchery

Me, random guy and my friend

I had a great weekend. My good friend had her Hens celebration on the Saturday. We spent the afternoon at a beauty salon; then had a fancy and civilised dinner with the mother and mother-in-law etc before moving the party into Northbridge for some riotous living. It was so much fun... the whole day that is. I think the part you will be most interested in though occured in the wee hours of the morning.

As soon as we got to the bar we made fast work of some tequila shots and then cooled off with some Vodka and lime. We were very popular with out pink fluff, shot glass necklasses and bridal veil. I recommend donning these costume pieces if you're up for a night of making instant short-term friends!

We found the crowd to be very friendly and at times a little too eager. New experience for me - making my way from the bar to the dance floor and random arms reaching out to try and entice you to dance with them. Tip no. 1: Walk fast! eyes ahead... then use the move my dad taught me where you twist your arm out of their grip in one swift move leaving unknown Romeo spinning.

The thing I'd like to natter about with you is this. I removed my wedding rings soon after leaving the Church. I wanted to find myself and I felt that the real bare bones me needed to be stripped of this worldly symbol of ownership.  Now before you all get started 1.) Rockstar has never worn a wedding ring 2.) I love him more and more every day! Our relationship rocks (In fact I was especially 'in love' with him when I got home from receiving so much positive attention that night... TMI, probably).

It just so happened that this guy asked if I were single and before I could open my mouth one of my friends said "She's married and she's got kids!". Hmmm. I wasn't annoyed that she had done that but it sure did start a tiresome exchange. So then this guy was all up in arms about me not being allowed to go out without my wedding ring on. I asked him why and he said "because you're hot!" Gee, thanks (blush).  I told him that my husband doesn't wear a ring and that I just wanted to go out and be me and have great conversations with people without having to be labelled as married. I asked him if he would have still hung out with me if I had worn the ring and he said he would have so good on him for that. I asked again what was wrong with me just wanting to be me minus the ring and he said that I was owned and that I had to show people that!!! Ok, back up a second, you said what?!! Ugh! I could not believe it. I let him know just what I though about his ownership hang up and I hope that I got through. Anyway this guy still hung around and I should add that he remained friendly throughout the night, he just had some very full on things to say. He harped on about it at random intervals but otherwise we all had a good night.

Being new to the world of pubs and flirtation I'd love to hear your opinions. Am I naive? messing with mens heads? Can they take it? Can we all just have good, clean, flirtatious fun or am I being mean? I had a good time. Did they?

Intruder Alert

Ok, enough already! I’m going to prioritise a blog post today. I keep sending this blog to the bottom of my ‘to do’ list and it is just never going to get any love that way.

Well, one interesting thing that came up during my long absence from blackbikini was an online conversation that DH had with a friend from his past. DH told me about it while we were watching the kids play at these indoor pools that remind me of Las Vegas, so I was feeling pretty laid back at the time (I have a ‘thing’ for Las Vegas, maybe that’s why I love The Killers so much) which I was glad about since the information DH gave me may have really pissed me off had I heard it at some other time.

Once again the story plays out at our friendly neighbourhood watering hole… Facebook. A chat box popped up and it was a friend from way back (not a mutual friend btw, this ‘friend’, who shall now be referred to as ‘Intruder’, has never met me) and conversation soon turned to religion (or lack thereof vis-à-vis Atheism), always a crowd pleaser!

Intruder complained to DH about how it was just such a terrible shame the way that his wife had dragged him away from the gospel; “what happened to the old __________ that I used to know” Intruder continued.

Well DH defended himself of course. He had his doubts about the church waaaaay before I did. The amazing part of our story is that for most of our marriage DH managed to keep his doubts to himself. He saw that I was really invested in the religion and that I seemed happy there. He didn’t want to disrupt that since his doubts were speculations and church life seemed to be a ‘good thing’ for our little family. When I ran headlong into polygamy (you can only hide it away in your closet of things you’d like to ignore for so long you know!) he saw the tide was changing. I was M. A. D.; change was coming. He took the leap before I did. He had been contemplating the god theory for at least 10 years and he was ready when the opportunity to openly question it presented itself. His disaffection was cleaner, more harmonious with good mental and physical health. I on the other hand felt like I had been ripped to shreds, hence the emergence of blackbikini, my lifeline.

So if there are any other lurkers out there who think I put on my fishwife boots and dragged DH out of the arms of god then think again.

As for “the old __________” that you “used to know” firstly, ‘know’ is certainly an overstatement. After 10 years of marriage I’d say DH and I are just beginning to scratch the surface of who the other really is, or is becoming. Secondly this statement is one of those pesky little things that Mo’s say when someone leaves… “where has the ‘real’ you gone??” , well I’d like to respond to that in like fashion “do you mean the Automaton that looked like me and smelled like me but that was really just , well, an Automaton!”.  For god’s sake, see the person not the ‘apostate’ people!!!

Finally, Intruder backed off from the ‘let’s dump this shit on his wife because she’s clearly the problem, what with that loud mouth and all’ rant and moved on to bagging my blog (blackbikini is like a train wreck to some people, they just can’t look away!) and then some truly delightful insights into ‘the problem’ with ‘the gays’. Nice.

Now, Intruder, you and I have never met (pray Allah we never do). This piece I’ve written here is sure to rub you the wrong way but I hope it will make you stop and think the next time you open your mouth (especially on facebook, people get ‘braver’ read stupider on facebook). I do have to thank you for one thing though, well no, two things. This story gave me a good laugh at a time when I really needed one; your bigotry turned my Las Vegas oasis into a chuckles retreat. The other payoff was that DH and I got to have a good laugh about something Mormon together.

Neurosis

It's been a while...

I have been stressed. Very stressed. My number one concern is definitely my sons eczema. It is not good. He has severe eczema on his arms, the backs of his knees and now his neck and face. He scratches all the time. In the morning his bed is covered in skin flakes and blood spots. He looks tired and sore. Anything that we put on his skin stings.

I just started writing a lengthy explanation of when the eczema started, how it progressed and how we have been managing it. I then deleted the paragraph. I am trying everything that I can think of to manage the eczema. It is on my mind day and night. I have nightmares about it.

This week the eczema has been improving. I feel hopeful.. but still scared.

..and I know that it is probably my fucking neurosis that is preventing the eczema from going away!!! I need to chill out and be strong for him. I need to get my head together and be his rock again. Poor little guy, I know that little kids look to their mums for love and comfort and stability.. and here I am turning my life upside down and probably making his life just as chaotic.

I did think about my children when I left the church. I wondered what it would do to them.

I don't for one second regret leaving but I do regret thinking that I could manage the process without much help. I am beginning to realise what a major change I have made in my life. I lost my whole belief system in a very short space of time. I also lost friends. I lost god. I lost my childhood innocence, my childhood dreams. I lost my sense of security, my anchor in life.

And it's not like I can get it back. It was a fucking lie!!! Do you get it yet?! They damned well made it all up! Aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh. I was quite happy before all of this thank you very much! You know... when I was deaf, dumb and blind.

Sometimes Mormons (family) ask how things are going since I left the church. I'm tired of telling them that things are good. Things are not fucking good! they are bloody awful. I feel ripped apart. I feel abandoned. I feel angry. I hate the Mormon lies. I hate that I was lied to as a child. I hate the brainwashing. I hate that I didn't get to grow up free to make up my own mind about god and sex and motherhood and..

I've been bottling all this up inside. Why? Still trying to please everyone I suppose.

I hate that I have Mormon friends on facebook who say they still want to be friends with me but then do nothing friendlike! I have hidden their comments for now. I am sick of reading about all of their girls nights out that I used to be invited to and now am not. Fuck! I even got some of them to get out of the house and back into 'time with the girls' in the first place. I think about un-friending them but that feels like a big scary step.

So how's that for a rant.

I thought I was going to be able to figure all of this out in my own sweet time but it would seem that the motherguilt is going to keep kicking my ass until I buck up and say fuck you Mormon church, you cannot take my heart and soul! I want it back you bloodsucking whore.

Sheesh!

I believe in love and goodness, family and friends. I am trying to reclaim my soul and to open it up again. I want to invite god back into my heart. Not that bogus Mormon god up in the clouds with white hair and a penis, no, not him. The REAL one, the one that loves everyone and doesn't care about what I wear, what I say, who I marry, what I drink, what I do on Sunday......................

That one.

Someone reminded me the other day that god is love.

Love.

Love.

Love.

I love... my son. (&T&P) (&me)

Gag order

Some of you will have been following little snippets of info on facebook that make it obvious that I have had some opposition to my blog this week. Overwhelmingly people have been positive about my blog and I am so happy to hear everyones comments. I am sure a number of people haven't liked what they have seen here and have respectfully left it alone. What I want to address right now is the one person who tried to shut me up and yet still believes that he has said nothing offensive (for brevity's sake lets call him No-talkie). Let me be very clear straight off the bat that if you disagree with anything I write here anywhere on the blog I would love for you to write a comment; or not write a comment, it's up to you. Open dialogue is exactly what I encourage, just add respect!

As No-talkie first posted his comment to Rockstars wall on facebook (the wall people! you know, where everyone can read it!) I think that I can safely assume he wouldn't mind if I reposted it here:

i've followed some of the comments that you and maureen have made about the church, if you choose to leave the church thats fine but what i have a problem with is when you insult active members by putting down there beliefs. do you think that i am that stupid and i am not free thinking enough to make conscious/educated decisions about my own faith. every active member that reads your comments would be offended by it but i am prepared to stand up for it. you'd be better served keeping your comments to yourself. typical case of 'you leave the church but you can't leave it alone'. live your own lives but don't insult the life that i still choose to live. live your own life and enjoy it because i enjoy mine and don't for one minute think that you or your wife are bringing me to the light with these issues.

regards

Well there's plenty to discuss in there but for today I just want to highlight the gag order. So for those of you who have been lucky enough to have a conversation with No-talkie, now you can make your own mind up. Was he being offensive?

Apparently I am not allowed to voice my opinions about what I consider to be an insidious institution yet No-talkie can say whatever he wants (which of course he can, you know freedom of speech and all). As I said in one of the messages I sent back - he used his freedom of speech to quash my freedom of speech. Look, should I really be so surprised, Joe Smith did the same thing when William Law tried to speak out against polygamy etc in his Nauvoo Expositor. That didn't end so well for old Joe.

No-talkie earns this name for these reasons: He sent his complaint to my husband, not me. He refuses to respond to any of my messages (fb and email). I have asked him to call me but I have received no answer. His wife ordered me to end communication with them.

The saddest part of all is that within the space of a few hours my friendship with No-talkies wife ended abruptly. With only a few written messages as her information and absolutely no verbal communication to attempt reconciliation my friend decided that the best thing to do was to insult, mock and discard.

Sigh!

So....the only way to responsibly respond to a gag order is to expose it. My 'mentor' sums it up nicely:

" I didn't leave people alone as an LDS missionary. LDS parents don't leave their children alone about religion. And the LDS church doesn't have the best record of leaving the marital status of gay people in neighbouring states alone.

As long as religions are sending out missionaries every week, I will not be leaving it alone, I can assure you."

Well said.