Right and Wrong

How many things can you squarely put into these two categories?

I am finding that these 2 once very full categories are haemorrhaging badly like there's no tomorrow. (There is a tomorrow).

To the point that I feel very wishy-washy and I'm getting a sore butt from lots of fence sitting. Buuuuuut, what am I supposed to do when my compass for life smashed on the rocks of insanity and I just can't seem to make up from down? My anxiety levels are, well, they are often very high let's just say that (can you all please go over to the poll on the top right hand corner of my blog now and vote for 30-days of meditation. Thank you very much).

Breathe.

However, it would seem that I am not alone in this. I recently joined a Facebook group that is organising an event to "End Animal Cruelty". A worthy cause on the face of it. Then someone posted a link to an ethical farmer and asked if anyone would mind if that farmer were represented at the event. Then things started to get interesting...

"the use of animals is wrong. they are NOT products. they are living beings like you and i. it would be wrong to promote animals as products!"

"Those that buy 'organic meats' may feel better about themselves, but they are doing nothing for the greater picture in the end. Go vegetarian or vegan and be done with it, if you really give a damn."

"Oh and if people who make money from the "production, exploitation and death of other animals are invited to Perth WEEAC, I'm out - how can you tell people that wearing fur is wrong but eating cows is OK?"

"What exactly is humane and NOT abusive about ending an animals' life prematurely (ie cows - killed by 6 years of age, if not sooner, when they can actually live 20 years) by ramming a big bloody steel bolt into their heads?"

"Yes there are people at different stages of their journey, however that does not change the fact that the comments made by ---------- are true. If the truth makes you uncomfortable/defensive; ask yourself why."

Now I am not arguing against these points exactly, what I am interested in is the passion/zeal for the cause. So if I eat meat I am wrong/ a bad person/ a murderer? I am undecided on the matter of vegetarianism/veganism but does that make be a bad person? If cave-men ate only plants would they have been able to survive? Is it because our population is now so huge that meat eating has become a cruel practice and unsustainable? Health-wise if I eat meat and animal products from ethically raised and slaughtered animals will I thrive more than a vegetarian/vegan. Is that arrogant for me to even care more for my own health than for that of the animals I want to consume. Sentience? Am I being a monster?

The debates on this Facebook page also seem to be retarding the planning process for the event. I don't think there will be any food available at the event because the logistics of it all have become too much. Making vegan food can be expensive and a lot of the ready to buy stuff has yucky preservatives in it. There was going to be a coffee van but now there are issues over what type of milk they will use. I will be interested to see how this all pans out. Oh, and the event is in 13 days.

There are so many arguments for and against eating meat. Just as there are with many other hot topics in life. So how do we communicate without shutting each other out, demonising, polarising, fighting, killing, destroying? 


There are so may ways to live life. So many routes to take, so many things to consider. I am all for stating ones opinion on something and even venting/ranting about it in the appropriate places (e.g. blogs) but knowing how dramatically our opinions can change over time I think that it is important to remember not to use the "right" and "wrong" boxes carelessly. I think I can use those boxes for myself, what is "right/good" for ME, what is "wrong/bad" for me. Even this will change over time but I think it can be useful to know what works and what doesn't. BUT for other people, surely only they can make those decisions for themselves. 
  
I take comfort in reminding myself that ... "When we know better we do better" and in the meantime I don't wanted to be paralysed by indecision so I will learn as much as I can; and then sometimes... I am going to go with my gut.


Nom Nom Nom.  

Sexy Atheists

"Atheists have always argued that this world is all that we have, and that our duty is to one another to make the very most and best of it."

I have been at a Divine One-Day Retreat  all day today and am pooped from all of the relaxation! hence I am going to take krissthesexyatheist's advice and post some other peoples stuff!

There is a Facebook page called 'Sexy Atheists'. Check it out and add your own photo if you're feeling sexy and atheist.

My top picks from the site are... well, obviously my number one is Christopher Hitchens, pictured above.

Then there's the ever lovely and spunky Emma Thompson.

"I'm an atheist; I suppose you can call me a sort of libertarian anarchist. I regard religion with fear and suspicion. It's not enough to say that I don't believe in God. I actually regard the system as distressing: I am offended by some of the things said in the Bible and the Qur'an and I refute them."

And one for Rockstar...Brad Pitt. "There's peace in understanding that I have only one life, here and now, and I'm responsible."

Down the Rabbit Hole

You know that post last night about trolling on Mormon facebook pages? This morning I woke up to find a string of comments from one of those pages which appears to be a substantial effort to try and (re)convert me.

It began about 3 weeks ago and I thought we were done but apparently WE are not done.  At first my evangelist berated me for having a negative view of the BOM. Then we had a misunderstanding where I thought they were comparing homosexuals to pedophiles. They said "And I ask you, "Do you love everyone the way they are? Even the rapists and pedophiles; serial killers and wife beaters? Because you just said that they were born that way."You see why I was alarmed right? The phrase of mine that triggered this statement was that I had said that any god I could believe in would love everyone as they are. What my evangelist keeps failing to understand is how incredibly insulting and tiring it is to hear homosexuals lumped in with pedophiles and rapists! Why do people immediately feel the need to go there? what is the link? The link in their head is SIN, they lump all of these things together as sins and completely fail to realise that they are being unbelievably cruel and bigoted  in their approach. Not to mention that they are just plain wrong! There is no sin in LOVE. The LGBTQI community teaches me daily about love.   


After clarifying that my 'born that way' statement was in relation to the LGBTQI community (doesn't anyone listen to Gaga anymore!) my evangelist went on to repeat themselves. "So, I'll rephrase. "Do you love everyone the way they are? Heterosexual or Homosexual? Rapist or not? Pedophile or not? Tax cheaters or not? Liars or not? Thieves or not? Animal abusers or not? Drug abusers or not?" It would appear that you think He should love EVERY PERSON as they are because they are born that way." Gah!  There are only 2 behaviours in there that don't harm another person and they are homosexuality and drug abuse. The rest impact upon others ranging from mild to severe in impact. You could argue that drug abusers hurt those close to them too BUT who are homosexual people hurting? the insecure and sexually repressed religious knobs? is that who? pfffft! give it a rest!


We then got into why I lost my belief in god. Which goes something like this:
"I was born into the church. I have read the BOM many times and the Bible, PoGP, D&C, 4 years seminary, 4+ years Institute, Gospel Essentials teacher, Young Womens Counsellor, Relief Society Counsellor. Then at age 31 I was reading Jacob2 (again) and this time didn't gloss over the mention of polygamy, referrenced it to D&C 132 and read it with a desire to understand. The ultimatum to Emma - 'accept polygamy or be destroyed' I "likened unto myself" and found no love from god. I realised I was a piece of property to him and worth less than my husband. I still believed in the church at this point and so I felt spriritually devastated by this new awareness of my place in gods plan. I spent the next year trying to find explanations that would show me I was wrong. Instead I found more and more damning evidence that the church is a fraud concocted by Joseph Smith etc. I have made my peace with Joseph. I love my Mormon friends but I 
despise Mormonism."


My evangelist friend then goes on to tell me about a bunch of women in the scriptures. Eve. Mary. Evangelist even quotes from the BOM "The Lamanite king Lamoni also bore testimony that his Redeemer was to be “born of a woman.”"Is that supposed to make me feel better?!!! that a woman was mentioned in scriptures as a baby maker! "Sarah, wife of Abraham, is mentioned only in passing as “she that bare you.” I think evangelist has forgotten whose point they are trying to prove! "Sariah, was the helpmate of the visionary Lehi and mother of the eight or so sons and daughters" Fuck me! helpmate (helpmeet?) and mother of 8, NO thanks! "
The unnamed wife of Nephi" Nameless, faceless, hopeless! To be fair, unnamed wife of Nephi did a pretty cool thing - "However, she does present a good example of a distraught woman turning to prayer when her husband’s life was endangered (as I'm sure a man would do if his wife was in danger). “With her tears and prayers” and in spite of threatenings, she tried to persuade the rebellious brethren to release her bound husband. (See 1 Ne. 18:19.) " Evangelist then makes mention of a maidservant who was beaten and then fled to the other side (the righteous side) and gave the baddies away. Evangelist sums it up with mention of the groups of  women mentioned in the BOM - sisters of Nephi, daughters of Ishmael, Lamanite daughters. 

Then this comment - "I guess you've forgotten that there are women in the Book of Mormon; good and bad, just like the men." No, but thanks for proving my point; that all of the heroes in the BOM are men. The women exist and are mentioned as some appendage to a man or men. As I've said before - Blech! 

Perhaps most insulting of all was the response to my earnest account of my feelings of pain etc upon discovering that Emma (and I) would be destroyed by god if we would not accept polygamy. Evangelist's response was to say that Joseph himself was threatened with destruction from god if he showed the golden plates to anyone (conveniently fixing the problem of people asking for proof of the plates) and again with destruction if HE would not institute polygamy. God! what a trial! having sex with pretty young (already married) women. Gag me with a mother-fucking spoon! 

Trolling for god

I may or may not be guilty of trolling around some Mormon facebook pages, pretending to have been invited to their event and getting involved in some scuffles over mass invites and censorship.

Evidence FOR...

More evidence FOR...

Evidence AGAINST...

......................

...........

...........................

Ok, ok, so that looks pretty guilty then. 

It was my first time trolling and I kinda liked it. 

Troll. Troll. Troll. Trolllllllllll. 

I heard about these pages through some ex-Mo fb groups and thought I'd check them out. There were some stellar comments by Mormon BOM readers in response to our trolling but I didn't take screen shots and they are now lost in the depths of those Walls. 

Here is a comment by a Mormon BOM reader:

The BOM reading page tended to hover around 40% success rate in inviting people that then accepted the invitation; with about 55% not responding and 11% rejecting it).  

The 'Flooding' page had a 15% success rate (I have my suspicions about the style of flooding that was carried out by the two 'Elders' pictured left); with 74% not responding and about 7% rejecting it. 

I didn't start taking screen shots till most of the fun was over (I'll be more onto it next time). There was a lot of censoring going on yet there was nothing worth censoring. A decent number of people (not me, I was a faker) were legitimately voicing their 'no' response on the Wall in a respectful way, particularly when they had been invited more than once, by member friends. These posts were all removed. Eventually the creator listened to the numerous complaints about 'mass invitations' and allowed the comments to remain in order (I hope) to give the attendees pause to think about who they invite. 

The censorship of commenters who were respectfully declining was not entirely surprising to me but it did get me thinking of the compatibility of Mormonism and Facebook. Facebook can get ugly and even when it is clean it is still a VERY open place. If someone is annoyed about being invited multiple times (by their own Mormon friends) to a religious event that they do not respect, then they may want to say something about it. I think that people ought to be able to say how they feel about such invites and those doing the inviting ought to be able to listen. Many attendees said that the 'non-attenders' ought to just ignore the invite and get on with their lives. I think that this attitude from evangelists is rude. If you are going to insinuate that you have 'the truth' and you want to 'save people' then you ought to at least give those people a voice in response. 

Love Bombs in memory of Joseph Smith

Joseph Smith Jr. died on June 27, 1844.

I don't celebrate his death but I hear that in Utah (and other parts of the U.S.A.) June 27th is a day where it is hard to escape constant messages praising the man. Over here in Australia I am relatively sheltered from such messages but facebook does increase that phenomenon. This year a facebook event has been created encouraging ex-Mormons (and anyone else who would like to get involved) to Love Bomb facebook today with testimonies, quotes, videos and links sharing the truth about Mormon history.

The creator of this event states... "PLEASE do all of this with Love in your heart, and in appreciation that someone once took the time to share the truth with us, enabling us to now live Joyous, peaceful, and authentic lives."


Living in Australia also means that I get to be amongst the first share these posts. My first one was a link to an "I am an Ex-Mormon" Video  . Accompanying this video I wrote ... 


"RIP Joseph Smith Jr. (Died June 27, 1844) Even though I am very very mad at you I think maybe you were a bit screwed in the head and so I am trying to forgive you. Although I doubt there is a life after this one I do know that there is life after Mormonism ♥


...and now I realise how far I have come. I used to openly hate the man. I called him "bastard, scoundrel, villain, rogue, rascal, snake, jerk, swine, cad, knave.... " I regularly told him to "Fuck off" and so it was a welcome discovery today when I typed out RIP in front of his name... and actually meant it. Then I watched the youtube link of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing 'Praise to the Man' whilst doing some research for this post. Yes, some of the lyrics pissed me off but I felt moved by the music and even got a little teary. I think that I felt sad for the many people who have been hurt by Mormonism as well as thoughtful about the goodness that can spring from just about anywhere, even from a false prophet. I like the idea that I can enjoy listening to this song whilst disagreeing with the man and the religion. Progress? I think so. The people singing the song believe in Joseph as a prophet and they try to live good lives and to honour the good man that they think he was. Now, I may be on the path to forgiving the man but the things that he did and the people that he hurt are recorded in history and I will not forget their pain. 


A couple of things about that 'Praise to the Man' youtube video (if you decide to watch it or if you already know it). The line - "Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;" gets the goat of ex-Mo's not so much because he had a gun with him, not so much because he shot it into the mob but because he had practised polygamy, kept it a secret (even from the husbands of women he married) and then burned down a printing press that dared to write about the truth of Mormon polygamy. This is why he found himself in prison!!! Whilst he did not deserve to be killed by a mob he was no saint and the church absolutely white-washes the story. As a child I heard and read the Mormon version of events many times. I was lead to believe that he was unarmed and that he was in jail because the law of the 'Wild Frontier' deemed his religion to be a nuisance, i.e. they were being discriminated against. AND I was taught that he was shot inside the jail-room and that the force of the bullet forced him out of the window where he fell to his death. In fact he had tried to jump out of the window to escape and was shot trying to do so. Again, still a sad story and I pity him but not the version of events that I was taught in Sunday School. 


Another line - "Earth must atone for the blood of that man". Can anyone say 'Holy War'? Seriously don't go around saying shit like that! Someone might actually take you seriously and either start a Holy War on your behalf or against you. Either way I think the less people keen to throw us into some kind of thermo-nuclear armageddon the better!

Finally, did you see that final painting of Joseph Smith there in the video? Um, whilst I think Joseph might like this image of himself I don't think it is very realistic and uh, it kind of looks like the artist! Check out the jaw line, the artist seriously just painted a picture of Joseph Smith in his own likeness!

Aaaaaaanyhooo, I think that the idea behind this facebook event is a good one. Reading sickly sweet messages about a man who has had a negative impact on your life kinda tends to leave bile in your mouth so it helps to be able to respond with a Love Bomb. Check out LAM (Life After Mormonism) or the iamanexmormon website and rest assured that you are not alone!

Update on Resignation (or have they already Ex'd me on the quiet?)

Shortly after posting this I was introduced to a secret facebook group where people are gathering to resign en masse. Their (our) Mission Statement:


Resign8: For those who believe they should leave the church because of the LDS's association with Prop8, who have been instrumental in funding the campaign to take away the rights of gay and lesbian couples in California. This group is also for those who may have already resigned and want to support those who may be considering leaving the church over this issue and for those who are NOT LDS but want to support those leaving the church. WHY ARE WE DOING THIS? The mission of the group is to rally as many members together and send the LDS our resignations EN MASS on the day the Supreme Court rules. Because the LDS church raised over $15 million dollars for YES on PROP 8 and requested that all church members "do all they can" to pass the measure. We believe this is wrong and are resigning *EN MASS* to dis-associate ourselves from the LDS church for commiting, endorsing and supporting this act of hate. Please contact the source of our mission statement for access to the Resign8 and stand with us!


Buuuut it's a secret group so to get the word out Josh Reynolds has created another group, a 'holding tank' if you will, for people to join on facebook. With a really short name for you to remember...


"Resignate: Mormon mass resign for Prop 8 pending supreme court ruling." 


So copy and paste that title into the search engine on facebook and you'll be able to click on the 'ask to join group' button. 


The reason for this extra step and the secrecy is that there are members of the group who have not revealed to their family and/or friends their disaffection from the church and/or their sexual orientation. 


So that is what I am now doing. And if the Morg decides to excommunicate me before then (or if they already have, cheeky buggers) then I really won't GAF because I'll still add my name to the mass resignation anyway. 


So a call out to all ex-Mo's, 'inactive' Mo's, never Mo's, transitioning Mo's come and join our resignation celebration if you feel like making a stand. 


Say NO to H8 and Yes to LOVE! 

Thanks to Laura Bergells for the free download of her happy heart chakra :) 

Sexplorations

I have so many sexy things to share with you.


A couple of weeks ago I went to see The Vagina Monologues. I thought I would like it... and I did! I wasn't even uncomfortable although I thought I might be. Each monologue captured me and taught me something new. For those of you not on fb here is my status update from that night -


"So Maureen, how was the Vagina Monologues? ... Well, I learned that to love a vagina you must first love hair. I also learned that there are like a billion different ways to moan. A vagina can be very aptly compared to a heart. Oh, and I got to practice yelling "CUNT!" ... not bad for one night."


Last night I went to a community gathering organised by our local eco-faeries to listen to and ask questions of sexologist Claire Litton. I went there with 2 girlfriends and there were about 35-40 in attendance, most between the ages of about 25 and 40 and a whole lot of attractiveness to boot! You could feel the love in the room. Sexologist Claire even remarked at one point how our attention was easily lost in our apparent desire to be all hippy-love supportive of each other... big virtual hugs all round every time someone said something that resonated with someone else, which was like every freakin' time someone spoke! 


That night I learned that I'm not the only one who grew up with hang-ups about sex. The non-Mo' populace also often struggles with sexuality. Porn seemed to be a big topic. Mostly people were concerned about the negative impact that it can have on people. Sexologist Claire spoke about the pornification of our society. She said that many people are learning about sex through porn (particularly porn that is not femme friendly) rather than in sex-ed and that this is altering our sex lives somewhat. I was a bit confused, having recently delved into the world of porn I was starting to like what I saw but then I realised that I have been lucky enough to discover porn at a time when there is beginning to be a lot of feminist porn out there. I have been spoiled by Erika and Tristan. When I mentioned these film-makers to the room no-one (other that Claire) had heard of them. How weird that the least sexually experienced person in the room (taking wild liberties with my assumptions here) would have accessed the best porn of anyone in the room (more liberties). 


And probably the number one word for the night? Communication! yup, talking before, during and after sex is highly recommended. Sexy talk that is, not your shopping list ok!


Another hot tip for the night was a plug for the Genderfuck Ball in a couple of weeks.  From the ad - "Genderfuck ; (v) the self-conscious effort to “fuck with” or play with traditional notions of gender identity, gender roles, and gender presentation." Now the question, what to wear??? I can't wait!


I ran across this article about improving sex worker's rights. "The West Coast Co-operative of Sex Industry Professionals (WCCSIP) in Vancouver, Canada, is taking the safety of sex workers into its own hands, reports Joanna Chiu in Herizons. The WCCSIP, made up of women, men, and trans-individuals, is one of several successful sex-worker organizations around the world. (In India, the group Durbar Mahila Samanwaya Committee has 65,000 members.) In an ambitious new proposal aimed to reduce violence against sex workers, the WCCSIP is lobbying to start a co-op brothel in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside. "


Oooh, and I 'liked' Susie Bright on fb. I'm a little star-struck by her I must admit. Her book Sexual State of the Union opened the door for me to a bright new world of sexual freedom. 


I should also probably mention that I was un-friended by another Mo' recently over my pro-porn attitude! Here's some excerpts from that illuminating conversation - 


In the anti-porn corner we have:


the original post - "To my parent friends out there thinking about taking your kids to see Easter Bunny movie "Hop" - you may want to rethink. The Easter Bunny goes to visit the Playboy mansion and speaks to Hugh Hefner. This is just one more way Playboy markets to children and grooms children to be future pornography consumers. Disgusting."


"but Porn is evil"


"well I'll be teaching my kids that all porn is bad... I don't know what good you are refering to. In my eyes porn is a mockery of the human body"

"And it is my personal opinion that there is nothing healthy about porn, or an entire industry that exploits vulnerable people."

"Smash 'em _________"

"just coz something is a way of life these days doesnt mean we need to accept it, or that it is right. The same can be said for drug alcohol abuse and related problems inc violence, bullying, paedophilia etc. They are all more common than ever, a way of life, but do we just accept them and say it's all good? I know my answer. Good work, _________!" 

...and in the Pro-Porn corner: 

"the Playboy franchise and porn are NOT one in the same. Playboy porn is only a style of porn. We musn't paint all forms with the same Playboy brush here"

"Oh come on, porn is not the enemy here. Once again, this uninformed assumption that all porn is the same and all porn is bad. Pornography is not just Hugh Hefner and his blond living dolls. Some is not good, some is exploitative, a lot isn't."

"what is wrong with being a future pornographer?"

"BTW check out kidsinmind.com when you want to know more about a movie - http://www.kids-in-mind.co
m/h/hop.htm"

and somewhere in the middle:

"Actually, Hugh Hefner was one of the founding influences in women's rights and largely funded the movement in early years. True, his financial support was selfish - so birth control would be introduced and abortion would be made legal, but . but regardless, we wouldnt be where we are as a gender without him. Women in modern times owe him a lot for our equality. Interesting twist, huh? ;) THAT'S the reason I own at least one piece of clothing with his bunny logo on it. Im in no danger of becoming a porn star, trust me....the reference to Hugh's financial contribution to women's rights is from a book called Female Chauvanist Pigs: The Rise of Raunch Culture."

......................

Well that ought to keep you busy for a while. I'll let you know how the ball goes. 

If you don't like my fire...

My numbers on fb tend to fluctuate quite a lot. As a vocal ex-Mo I am getting somewhat used to seeing the numbers slip down but damn it! I am trying to get more friends than Rockstar and this 'up 2, down 1' business is making it really hard!

Don't get me wrong, I loooove all of my new non-Mo friends... Loooove them! but there is a little pang in my heart every time a friend decides they've had enough and removes me from their list. Especially when they keep Rockstar on the list bcos then I'll never beat him! hehe. No, seriously all I can think is that they must be keeping him there a.) because he doesn't post that much god-bashing info, or b.) because they think he just left (church) because I pussy-whipped him into it, or c.) because they like him better.

I know, I know you're all thinking c.) right?! (stupid adorable *#@*ing Rockstar!).

I could understand it if I had actually been horrible to these 'friends'.  It really sucks knowing that you've been un-friended because the person doesn't like what you are writing online (ever heard of 'hiding' a persons posts?!). It makes me so terribly proud of my Mo' friends who stick by me no matter what I say about their stinkin' religion. I love them and have never said otherwise about a single Mo' friend, ever! Thanks for seeing ME guys, thanks for seeing past my hurt and giving me the space to grieve and heal.

"Get over it" I hear you say, "they were never real friends" you add. Yes, I agree with you. I just happen to have a nice lil' public blog-hole where I can rant about whatever I feel like and today I feel like saying to all of the people who have un-friended me bcos of my blog-hole......hey! - "If you don't like my fire, Then don't come around Cause I'm gonna burn one down!"

Now I have a confession to make (ooh, that reminds me I just have to go and friend request someone - excuse me, yep done! - that I un-friended ages ago when I was getting all jealous of the girls that Rockstar was friending from his past "Is that an old girlfriend? ...Is that? ...What about that one?" and then I got all self-righteous and un-friended boys from my past, anyone Rockstar didn't know, just to show him how god-damned special I was! what a joke! I have a post to write about control and letting go of it! post-Mormonism).

Er, long tangent. Anyway, confession? yes, right then. Well, there was another time when I went for a mass un-friend-icide and it happened pretty soon after I received some hate mail from some Mo's. Some of this mail was sent anonymously but through a friend I discovered who had written it and they (the writer) were (was?) one of my fb friends!... So I went on the offensive and un-friended all of my Mo' friends that I had not seen or spoken to within a few months. Happy Day(z) when I started getting messages from said Mo' friends asking me what was going on and sending me friend requests  J

So, to all of the Mo's out there who think I un-friended them but can't really remember whether we ever were actually fb friends or not, there's a pretty good chance that we were and that I was a douche and un-friended you. Hey, if you feel like helping me beat that numskull, Rockstar, in the friends department and you think I'm a bit of alright then please by all means friend request me eh?!

Hey, this has been fun! Practicing my writing skillz (hey, I heard that laugh!), therapising myself in the mean-time...loverly!

Signs of distress

Facebook is like crack to some people - and by some people I mean ME. I have tried to wean myself off it, set time-limits, go cold-turkey but all in vain. At this point I have decided to embrace my addiction and put it to good use. There are so many interesting articles and discussions about sexuality, drug use, mental health etc that I am quite sure I can write it all off as research for my interest in health promotion (more on this at a later date).


Meanwhile fb also provides some interesting insights into how people think and feel. A recent thread on a friends wall explored the topic of pornography. It started out as a discussion about pornographic images on t-shirts and the implications of that for young children. It soon turned into a debate over the perceived perils and/or pros of porn. Veeeery interesting reading. I have copied and pasted the 80 comments (minus names) into a document w/ I will edit further for names in the comments and then add a link here. The thread started on 01 March 2011 and the last comment (so far) was made on the 10th March 2011. What I want to talk about are some of the phrases that stick out to me as common things that Mormons seem to say when they feel attacked. Having read quite a number of ex-Mo friends fb threads I'd say that there seems to be some common themes.


One that really sticks out to me are the statements of 'being done with the conversation'. This sentiment seems to be expressed quite regularly by active Mormons (sometimes more than once by the same person). The ex-Mo's and non-Mo's seem to feel no need to announce their departure.

Anti-Porn Commenter 1 -  "I've stated my views and heard yours, so thankyou everyone, i'm done."

APC1 - (1 comment later) "i need a shower and life beyond this facebook discussion must go on :) please respect that."

APC2 - "I agree _______. I need a shower too."

APC3 - "Anyway people im pretty busy today, so im out. im hanging around my computer... and i really have too many other things to get done. im sure we're not going to sort out this discussion anytime soon, and i already know how i feel and how everyone else feels. Please don't see my leaving the discussion as my opinion having no credability, or back up, but i dont want my day to be filled with conversations or pornography. I hope you all have a nice weekend. :) enjoy"

APC4 - "Anyway clearly there is a massive difference of opinion here so I'm out now, this is getting too personal. I'll agree to disagree and leave it at that."

APC4 - "I agree _______ - this discussion has gone around in a circle so this will be my last post.......(rest of TBM4 comment here).......Anyway that's all from me."

APC5 - "that is all :-)"

Why the need to announce your departure from a conversation? The other commenters (non-Mo's and ex-Mo's) simply took breaks when life got busy and returned to the conversation when they had time for it. Why all the drama? It makes the commenter sound pretty full of themselves IMO. 

______________

The next thing I noticed was a lovely term - 'you people' began to be used as a shorthand for referring to the pro-porn brigade. It was used several times before being questioned by 2 of these 'you people'. The question was ignored until brought up for a third time - "My earlier question - "you people" - what was that about? What kind of person am I?"

The response(s) - 

APC4 - "As for the 'you people' comment, I was merely commenting to a group of people - same as if you would use 'hey guys' as a greeting to a group of people. I didn't mean it as an offense."

APC6 - "Yeah that's what I meant by "you people" too I just couldn't be bothered saying all the pro porn peoples names."

______________

The final thing that I want to point out are the Hi-5's. This time both the pro-porn and anti-porn brigades engaged in this hand slapping but I think you may also note the differences...

Anti-porn Hi-5's (all from anti-porn commenters to anti-porn commenters)

"Great points _____ " 

"________,  I support you 100%!"

"And ________  I thought your comments were friggen fantastic :)"

"I've just read all the above comments and, like _______, _______ I support your opinion 100%."

"Yeaaaah ______ Dawg! Represent! Haha"

"Good comment _______ Dawg!"

"I'd just like to congratulate ________ and the Mum quoted in the above article for the courage and determination they have in striving to make this world a better place." 

 

Pro-Porn Hi-5's (all from pro-porn commenters to pro-porn commenters)

"_________, you write eloquently and with great humanity.

"I'm with _______ and her comments on this one."

Look, having been in that environment myself I know where the (religious) anti-porn party is coming from. It hurts to discuss these things. The mental gymnastics that must be done in order to continue to believe are just HUGE. I personally have a lot of time for the friend who posted the link that sparked the debate. She has had many long and intense discussions with me and I think that she tries really hard to hear everyones view. The other commenters are a little newer to the confrontation and I certainly don't want to throw them under the bus for responding in perfectly natural ways to a discussion that gets to the very core of who they are. I just wanted to analyse the discussion a little and hopefully highlight some of the cultural barriers?? between people who have a set of religious beliefs to up-hold and those who don't.