Monday, March 7, 2011

Jumping through Hoops

Seriously! I am still technically a Mormon? really??? 

Soon after launching this blog (Jan 2010) I was sent a letter (in Feb) wherein the local church leaders postulated that I had been found to be in apostasy. (I so wish I kept this letter now!)

[ooh I just found an old post of mine where I had copied a couple of paragraphs from the letter -
   "The Bishopric is considering formal disciplinary action in your behalf, including the possibility of disfellowshipment or   excommunication, because you are reported to have been in apostacy. 

   You are invited to attend this disciplinary council to give your response and, if you wish, to provide witnesses and other evidence in your behalf. "]

...I threw it out in disgust. Instead of attending the 'council of love' where my sinfulness and apostasizing ways would have been talked about at length in a room full of men in suits (no women present! just little old me representing for women) .. instead of subjecting myself to their 'love' I decided (after some advice from a friend) to write my exit letter.

I sent it by registered mail and received confirmation from Australia Post that the letter had been received by my bishop. I never received a response. Rockstar (DH), who had received the same letter as me about being an apostate, did receive a new letter informing him that his meeting with the leaders had been cancelled. I gather from all of this that the leaders knew that Rockstar had not written anything on the blog and thus they had nothing on him. I think they had only been calling him in because they view men as responsible for their (ownership implied here!) females behaviour!!! I think they were calling him in to assist in putting me back in 'my place'.

I waited for quite a few months; carrying on with my blog, negotiating relationships, trying to move on. Eventually I realised that the leaders had no intention of responding to my letter. I re-wrote it. Added some things, removed some things. I added a cover letter basically saying "Hey guys, I've already sent this once before but here it is again, please let me go!!!"

More months went by. Still no response.

Now it's just plain silly. I want out! why won't they respect my wishes? hell, they won't even communicate with me about it.

Today I came across this site. OK, so now I just need to send the letter to -

Member Records, LDS Church
50 E North Temple, Room 1372
Salt Lake City, UT 84150-5310
United States

...and hopefully they'll get the ball rolling. Plus, I just saw this paragraph on the same site -

"If you've said in your letter that it is your formal resignation from the church and that it is effective immediately, you become a non-member the minute they receive your letter. All the rest (see THE PROCESS) is just them jumping through their own hoops." 

Aaaaaaah, phew! I am no longer a Mormon. As of February 2010 when I first sent my letter via registered post I wrote my own future, yay for that! If those men in suits need some hoop jumping practice then I guess they can knock themselves out, I know how stuffy it can get in that place, a bit of exercise will do them good :P

Will keep you updated on the response from Salt Lake City!


  1. Good luck! When we left (Feb 2010), we sent a letter to our bishop, stake pres, and the suits in SLC. It took only 8 calendar days to receive a reply that they received our request. Once the Salt Lake office knows, you're home free!

  2. 8 days!!! wow. I was told it had to go through my local leaders and that it would take time. Let's see how long SLC takes, I've been told that it can get complicated when you live outside of the USA.

  3. I hear stories like this and it makes me angry. People are, at least for now, independent and sovereign, particularly when it comes to religious following. Only a private club can act the way they do, assuming you had some contract with them. I guess because they are a private club, the LDS'rs feel they have a right to do what they do.

  4. I am sorry they were pulling that crap on you. I sent my letter to that address and it worked. I was out in about five weeks after sending it to SLC.

  5. Hey Will :) I really do wonder what they are waiting for. I am quite sure that my local leaders know I am never coming back. Do they think it is their job to float the numbers for as long as they can? Desperate measures from a desperate organisation :P

    Kiley :) 5 weeks, you lucky duffa. Here's hoping that SLC will deal favourably w/an Aussie!

  6. It sounds like you're on your way. I'm puzzled about why you were disgusted at the letter. Isn't leaving one's religion the definition of apostasy?

  7. I thought if you wanted to leave you just didnt go anymore !!! Why do you need their blessing for you to leave the church ???

  8. Hey there Retief :) I wasn't disgusted about being called an (almost) apostate. No, it was the discipline they wanted to enact that irked me! And just the whole charade, I mean by that point I was pretty fuming mad at God, at Joe, at the church, why on earth would I care to listen to some men in suits who, in my eyes, held no power whatsoever. Then there was the matter of my letter being signed from our local bishop whereas Toby's was from the Stake president. Even though Toby had not spoken out against the church his disciplinary matter required more authority to deal with than mine. Toby said that in priesthood you are pretty much taught that if your wife or children go stray then you as the priesthood holder are held accountable for that (as well as the adult woman of course but she is not tut tutted for her husband leaving).

    Hey there anonymous ;) who also messaged me so I know who you are! Certainly I can just leave and tell them to leave me alone but until I remove my name then my name counts in the numbers of Mormons supporting things like Prop8. I don't want to be affiliated in any way with the church. Apparently even when I get my name removed this still just means that they move my details to another area and I am kept 'on file' and my children, when they turn 18, will most likely be sought out. Hopefully we can lose them though. We'll move and move and move and hopefully MIL won't tell them where we've gone :P

  9. I can understand the anger at the idea these people had the right to arbitrate your reconciliation with an organization your were rejecting and not intending to reconcile with. The suits seem to really bother you. Would it have been better if they were all in khaki shorts?

  10. Haha :) I just went down your train of thought and the khaki shorts freaked me out way more than the suits. I think I am describing them as suits because they are men, ALL of them. I really hate that now. It used to be a little bit weird but now it really bugs me. Especially when I read on feministmormonhouswives about all the women using the priesthood throughout history, even in Joseph Smiths time. Plus I guess I see their authority as totally bogus now and the suit is a joke to me, at least if they were in khaki shorts they would not be trying to present as 'better than me'.

  11. So annoying. Good for you, though! That still boggles my mind...Hopefully you hear back from SLC soon.

  12. Maureen

    I would be happy to see you go. Hell, I think I want you off our list more than you want it. You are a disgrace and need to move on. How long does this so called 'grieving process' take?

    You may not agree with what the church teaches but you cannot deny that the church does good in many areas. Just take a look at the enormous amount of humanitarian aid the church provides. What 'good' have you done as you have embraced atheism? My bet, very little for anyone, except for yourself.

  13. Well looks like you can tick off your good deed for the day anonymous! Seriously, you seem to be tripping over Matthew 5:44

    You said - "What 'good' have you done as you have embraced atheism? My bet, very little for anyone, except for yourself." - At least we can agree that I have treated myself well by leaving the church! The water is safe, come for a swim!

    I wouldn't go announcing the church as any sort of model for humanitarian efforts. I think you'll find (if you care to look) that the church's money (your money) goes to many places, humanitarian efforts being on the bottom of that list.


  15. I recently changed the settings on my blog to disallow comments from anonymous cowards. It cut down on a lot of the riff-raff.

  16. the Anonymous mormon who used the word would be fired from your job at BYU for saying that! Shame on you!

    And for the record, i was raised by atheists and as a teen, i was the President of the SADD chapter at my school, and donated time and money to various charities. I served in the USAir Force, enlisting at age 19. When i joined the LDS church at age 21, i no longer had time to volunteer, nor extra money to donate to causes i wanted to support. ALL my free time and extra money was taken by the church. Sure, they do a little good with their money, but it's a DROP in the bucket compared to what they COULD do. There are children starving all over the world, but the mormons would rather spend MILLIONS of dollars on prop h8. Nice.

    Now that i've left and gone back to my atheist roots, i have time to once again volunteer for groups who are completely overlooked by the mormon organization, and money to give them as well.

  17. 'M' you should give the ever so cowardly 'ANONYMOUS' a big fat kiss!

    They just ignorantly did your blog a huge favor.

    Funny how uneducated they are, do they really know how the church does their counting with the Humanitarian Aid? I bet they just read the lies produced in the Ensign and go about happily never finding out the truth. The church has given so little over its lifetime......compared to how much it spends on shopping malls for instance!

    When I served in the Hamilton Canada Stake Presidency I saw the church fraudulantly counting the actual donation (materials) which is given by the member for the hygene kits as well as the member labor hours as part of the HA donation........SICK!!! Did the church give this material or the member?

    Its all good though, when a member on my blog so ignorantly atacked me and showed the true character taught in the LDS church, it brought more readers both members and non-members to my blog then ever before! My readership and following increased 1000%.

    Most reasonable members and non-members will see the statements from the ever brave 'ANONYMOUS' for what they are, and will want to have no part of them!

    But it will definately add more readers to your blog.

    I can only hope that 'Anonymous' decides to reply further.......I cant wait to see what ingenious statements are yet to come!

    Sincerely Not so afraid to use my name!

    Norman Thompson

  18. My guess is that my comment won't change anonymous's mind about anything... so this isn't addressed to them.

    However, I still have a lot that I want to say.
    The church might do some good. Hell, they helped me, but all of the good in the world does not change that they also abuse and control people with manipulation, lies, and deceit. They hide the truth, pretend to be victims of abuse when often they are the perpetrators.

    The church does give a lot of money to people in need... it doesn't make their abuse okay.

    If there was shit in the cookie, would you eat it? It's still a cookie... there's just a little shit... You can just ignore it, focus on the good??

    I can't. Shit in a cookie makes the whole cookie inedible to me.

  19. Now that's not very Christlike, is it Anonymous?

    Fuck off.

    The abuse the church perpetuates can not be canceled out by quilts and cookies, sorry.

  20. Wow Anonymous, you are a self righteous prick aren't you? I see you do as Yeshua taught too. To be judgmental. Wait!? He didn't teach that! he taught to not judge and to love one's neighbor. There is nothing in mormonism that is good that is unique to mormonism. And for the humanitarian aid? What a joke. Calculations based on reported income vs outlay for countries that must report like Canada and the UK, and estimates for the US and worldwide put the outlay at 5 USD per year per member. Wow! That is a lot of money per person! But you know what I give more each week than that. And tithing used to buy up property and build temples and malls and other structures does not count as humanitarian aide.

  21. Yeah, what they all said. Maureen, you've got my support 100%. Anonymous should know that not all ex-mormons are athiests. Many find their own way to worship God and find it a much more fulfilling experience, not befuddled by the laundry list of projects required to reach salvation. Once we realize the church teaches VERY FALSE doctrine, making it a FALSE CHURCH, the burden is lifted and we are truly happier people. The anger comes from being mis-understood by the mo's.

  22. Pretty cowardly thing to hide behind anonymity when attacking someone, 'Anonymous'. But I'll undertake to join the others in answering your question. The grieving process is different for every individual. I've known people who simply walked out and never looked back. To be brutally honest...they were always luke warm in their belief anyway, so it wasn't any skin off their noses. And I've known wonderful people who had dedicated DECADES of their lives in service to others in the Church who had eventually decided to delve into more than they had been taught in Sunday School, Primary, Seminary, Young Adults, etc. What they discovered shook them to the core. They had sacrificed MUCH. They had given their ALL. They had donated small fortunes to assist in building an organization which was based upon lies, prevarications, and deceptions. For someone who had given their all in love, respect, and arrive at this knowledge and is like having a death in the family. How long does it take for an individual to grieve such a loss, get over it, move on? Every individual is different. Here is something for you to consider, when speaking about the charitable works of the LDS Church...the cost of one Temple alone could feed, clothe, shelter, and educate hundreds of thousands of impoverished people in third world countries. I wonder...are you one of those deluded members who still believes that the upper eschalons of LDS leadership aren't paid? This is not a Church of lay leadership in those rarefied ranks. These are men who make 6 figure salaries. If the LDS Church was led by honest men...they would open their finances for scrutiny.

    My name is Janice Gordon. And I'm an ex-Mormon.

  23. seems as though I am not alone in my experiences... but I already knew that! I have spent the last 18 months of my life learning how to LIVE again! and the friendship, love and support from the online ex-Mormon community has been a huge comfort.

    It's not easy to put myself out there and say everything that is in my heart and mind BUT I do think that it helps others to cope with their own journey out of the church and I know that it helps me too.

  24. So anonymous, what exactly do you do that is so charitable? (Scripture that comes to mind talks about casting the first stone...)
    Sitting in the temple in airconditioned comfort on a padded seat doesn't count. Too easy, and you also get the kudos from other members seeing you there. No real sacrifice.
    As for grieving, there are many levels to Maureen's grieving process and it takes more time as she discovers more and more that she never knew about the church. At least have the maturity to recognise that becauase Maureen feels she is discovering more and more mormon lies, there is increasingly more grieving to be worked through.
    Additionally, she has to grieve the loss of "friends" - no easy task.
    Maureens original post dealt with bureacracy - how the original letter was handled, the court she was requested to attned, and that nothing appears to have been done yet. You are the one who made it personal and nasty.
    And keep in mind that there are a lot of people who have never been members who read this blog. My bet is that the nasty comments of members will do more to convince them to never have anything to do with the mormon church than anything that Maureen could ever write.
    So depending on how you want to view it, perhaps that is your "good deed" for today?
    Your choice.

  25. Look at all you venomous bitches carrying on. I knew if I threw in a little LDS love regarding humanitarian efforts of the church all you angry souls out there would fire up and unleash.

    Thanks for the laugh, guys.

  26. LOL! I think anonymous is having trouble seeing his/her own hypocrisy.

  27. Umm, you still didn't answer the question.
    Or perhaps you did.
    Don't hide behind your religion. If all you are doing is paying tithing and going to the temple, then you aren't exactly doing much and certainly don't have the luxury of casting stones at others.
    And the "love" that you speak of was your own delusion - there was no love in your post. Only accusations and recriminations.
    Pretty sad really, and says an awful lot about you.
    And just so you are clear about what happened here:
    Maureen posted about bureacracy.
    You posted a bitchy comment stating that you would be glad if she was gone, and throwing down the gauntlet with regards to what "good" Maureen has done (with the nasty little comment at the end about her probably only doing good for herself.)
    Her friends then jumped in to defend her against your nasty, ill-considered and illogical diatribe.
    You then make a ridiculous comment at the end.
    And fail to answer the question.
    I'm sure all the people who read this blog and have never been mormons are very impressed at your language, accusations and lack of logic.
    So congratulations on convincing people that they wouldn't ever want to be affiliated with such an organisation.
    @ Maureen - you don't need to attack the church. People like "anonymous" will do it all for you.
    Have a nice day! :0)

  28. This comment has been removed by the author.

  29. oops, typos (bigger ones that usual otherwise I wouldn't even bother re-posting)

    How weird, I thought everyone did a great job responding to anonymous' comment but he/she didn't seem to get much out of it. Looks like you were right Jen!

    I wonder ,anonymous, why it is that you come here? Essentially this is a place where ex-Mo's, non-Mo's and sympathetic Mo's discuss the darker side of Mormonism. I still have Mormon friends and they aren't offended by what I write here, they understand and respect a persons right to express themselves and explore their own reality. Why is that so hard for you to do? I don't attack Mormon people, just the religion yet you seem hell-bent on making it personal?

    ...and that is the weirdest part for me Carolyn - why does anonymous write like this? all angry and rude... I know Mormons are just as capable of getting nasty as anyone but usually they try damned hard not to let it show? hmmm.

  30. >Look at all you venomous bitches carrying on.
    Is this a Christlike attitude? What would Yeshua say?

    >I knew if I threw in a little LDS love regarding humanitarian efforts >of the church all you angry souls out there would fire up and >unleash.
    Pointing out facts about the true nature of Mormon humanitarian efforts does not mean that we are angry souls. Although there is no sin in righteous indignation. The mormon church hides its finances. Why would that be. All of the upfront and honest churches and humanitarian organizations that I know of have open books.

    I would suggest Ms. Anonymous that you do a little looking within. Within yourself and then within your church. Do you exhibit Christlike behavior? Would the Savior as described in the New Testament and the Book of Mormon be happy with the behavior of the leadership of the church? Would the Savior rather see them working in a homeless shelter or taking the praise of men? Spending money on edifices or helping people that are hungry and needy?

    Think on it.

  31. Hi Gwylym :) I think our anonymous Mormon is of the variety that enjoys being a 'rebel' and it excites them to flaunt LDS customs etc I don't think they care too much about being christlike. Pity, they could use their rebelliousness in so many better ways like fighting for the environment or something ;D

  32. /sigh

    Maureen, I'm just glad that you have so man folks who've got your back.

    Congrats on your ExMormonship.


    ps change your settings so I can comment under my real name. I think it's "name/url"

  33. Hiya All!

    Just because it's been mentioned a coupleof times i thought I would give my 'never been a member of any church/religions' opinion.

    I'm a life-long atheist, I don't really feel any religion is better/worse than the next, they're all screwed up to me.

    A couple of people have said that all Angry Anonymous's comments have done is to serve to be a warning against mormonism, and can I just say, they are 100% right!!

    Bumper stickers, I love 'em, and this reminds me of one of my faves, "I don't hate Jesus/God, It's their fan club I can't stand."

    Anonymous, you are a hater. Good luck with that, it won't get you far in this world.

  34. Thanks mfranti, I've changed the settings, I think. I don't even know how I've got this far already w/my blog, I just kind of make a guess at things and hope it works!

    TGIAA, angry anonymous is a hater and that's what has always disturbed me the most with this blog... the way that some believing Mormons can't see that I am not complaining about the people but the religion itself. Then you get these so-called Christian people spitting vitriol at me. It's frustrating. I was looking through Rockstar's friends list last night on fb so I could poach some new friends but it ended up being a bit of a downer seeing how many of our old Mormon friends were still friends with him but not me. I assume it is because of this blog. If I had kept my mouth shut then I'd still have those 'friends'. FB friends numbers joking aside, it did sting a little to realise the results of my outspoken-ness. Well, if that's the cost then so be it. It's kind of cool to have been able to reveal my true friends!!! :D